Yelena McElwain The 10-Year Retiree

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Ibi

Hello and welcome to IV’s Digital Nomad Stories, featuring real conversations with professionals who have cracked the code to sustainable, nomadic lifestyles. These people aren’t beach and Wi-Fi chasers. They’re building competitive advantages that traditional employment could never match. Global mobility, income diversification, and the freedom to capitalize on opportunities anywhere. I’m Abby Malik, your favorite digital nomad consultant, and today I’m joined on the show by Jelena McElwain, someone who proved that early retirement is not a lottery win.

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Ibi

It’s a formula. She did fire financial independence, retire early, and the maths of this philosophy is almost insultingly simple. Save 25 times your annual spending and then withdraw up to 4% a year while that portfolio keeps growing. Yelena just set her number, saved as much as she comfortably could, and then ten years later, she hit the number she wasn’t even aiming for ten years.

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Ibi

She had a goal, not a time based deadline. She hit it and now she is financially free. Diving the shipwrecks and teaching meditation. And here’s the twist. She spends less retired than she did while working. This is a masterclass application of the fire formula. When you treat freedom as a number rather than a fantasy, retiring decades early becomes a spreadsheet equation that you can actually solve.

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Ibi

Let’s hear it from someone who’s done it. Here’s Yelena. Do you want to just talk about fire? Do you want to talk about other stuff too? How long have you been a nomad?

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Yelena

Six years. Almost.

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Ibi

That’s a long time.

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Yelena

Yeah. Three years full time and three years half time. Wow.

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Ibi

And the three years. Half time came before the three years full time. Or they came after the three years full time.

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Yelena

After the three years full time.

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Ibi

Oh, so you went three years fully Nomad, and then you went half time Nomad? Yeah. Therefore, you got a job?

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Yelena

No, I actually had a job when I was full time Nomad.

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Ibi

I understand. No. Okay. So when you’re a full time nomad, you had a full time job, and then when you were half time nomad, you didn’t have a job, or you did have a job?

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Yelena

I didn’t. Yeah. Those things kind of coincided, but they weren’t like it wasn’t a cause and effect. It was just I quit my job when I was still a full time nomad, but then I kind of got tired of traveling full time, so I decided to spend half time at home.

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Ibi

Where did you go? Where did you.

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Yelena

Visit to? Denver.

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Ibi

No. No, no. When you were a nomad.

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Yelena

Oh.

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Yelena

A lot of the common places. Mexico? Yes. But briefly.

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Oh, no.

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Ibi

You know, I’m getting concerned, though. That’s the whole French thing. There’s the whole anti camera and now there’s buddy.

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Yeah.

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Ibi

That was buddy.

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Yelena

Oh Bali was busy.

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Ibi

But did you go to a waterfall and do some special meditative yoga that turned you into a superhero?

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Yelena

No.

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Ibi

I’ve, I’ve had many things about this meditative yoga. Only there’s one waterfall they all go to. Did you hear about it?

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Yelena

No, I didn’t actually. Well, I did some yoga in Bali, but not anything weird. Surprisingly.

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Ibi

It’s a good idea. Good idea. There’s some weird people, though.

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Yelena

I mean, it was a it was a nice place, but. Yeah. Very busy. Lots of nomads.

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Ibi

Okay, so that was body. That was Vietnam, you said.

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Yelena

Yeah.

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Ibi

Well.

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Yelena

I mean, there was probably 20 or 30 countries. Mexico, Colombia.

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Ibi

Wait. In two years. Three years.

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Yelena

I guess I’m thinking of the whole six years. Yeah, probably when I was full time traveling, I probably averaged 10 to 12 countries a year and.

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Ibi

A month.

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Yelena

Yeah, approximately.

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Ibi

As long as you ever spent in a place.

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Yelena

4 or 5 months.

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Ibi

Well, that’s a long time.

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Yelena

Yeah. In Nicaragua.

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Ibi

Why do people go? Even Miranda said she was in Nicaragua all the time.

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Yelena

I mean, I went to Little Corn Island and I did my dive master training there. So that was.

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Ibi

You’re a dive master?

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Yelena

Yes. So that occupied me for about three and a half months. And then I traveled around Nicaragua on the mainland for about a month.

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Ibi

Did you ever, like, dive on a shipwreck? Yeah.

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Yelena

Actually, in Sri Lanka, most recently, I did a couple of shipwrecks.

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Ibi

A couple of shipwrecks.

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Yelena

Also in the Philippines.

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Ibi

Like you go to a couple of bars. I went to a couple of shipwrecks. Yeah, that’s the way it goes. You know, there was also one lady that came on the podcast. L. And she was an underwater archeologist. She was go down to the shipwrecks and investigate them. I feel like I’m missing out on so many things.

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Yelena

I think so. I mean, that would be really fun to be an archeologist underwater. Maybe next life.

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Oh.

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Ibi

Can you do you need the qualification to be an archeologist?

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Yelena

Probably. Like probably PhD.

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Ibi

Do you need a qualification to become a philanthropist?

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Yelena

Unclear.

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Ibi

And are you now self-proclaimed retired?

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Yelena

Yes.

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Ibi

How? When? Where?

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Yelena

I mean, I found out about the idea of fire financial independence. Retire early when I was about 25, I think. Probably starting.

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Ibi

How did you find out?

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Yelena

Yeah, I think starting with Tim Ferriss four hour workweek.

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Ibi

Did you read it in Bali?

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Yelena

No.

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Okay.

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Yelena

I was not yet traveling.

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Ibi

You’re not yet traveling, okay.

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Yelena

Yeah. But that. You know, I thought that was a really interesting idea. And then I read some blogs and other posts about it and just got interested. You know, I was already saving, so I just continued kind of saving and trying to not be a big spender. Yeah. And eventually I reached kind of that goal that I set out for myself and didn’t quit right away.

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Yelena

Actually, I continued working for probably about 3 or 4 years, but my kind of projects started changing and not going in the way that I wanted and so decided to quit.

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Ibi

So at 25, where you own your first job, or were you not started working yet, or were you established in your career?

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Yelena

I was on my second job and I was already, I would say, yeah, fairly established in my career.

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Ibi

Okay. So you’d been working for a bit?

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Yelena

Yeah, I was started working right after college.

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Ibi

And what kind of. What were you doing?

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Yelena

Data analysis.

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Ibi

Data analysis. Okay. And did you go, like a traditional data analysis path, like studying Daito math or something?

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I studied economics. Solid.

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Yelena

So data science didn’t really exist as a field yet.

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Yelena

So it was kind of a good time to start in data analysis work. And then it became bigger and bigger and bigger. And so yeah, I was able to have quite a nice career.

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Ibi

Interesting. Okay. Okay. So you studied the economics, then you went straight into data analysis. Yeah. And then you heard about this thing.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Ibi

What kind of impact did it have on you?

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Yelena

I think it just inspired me to kind of save what I was earning. Did not. Not become a big spender. Not like by a fancy car.

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Ibi

I’m trying to understand whether it was, like a penny drop moment where the glass shatters and you’re like, oh my God, this is a thing. Or whether it was like a oh yeah, that’s the thing that people do or just do that. That’s what I’m trying to work at.

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Yelena

I think when I first learned about it, it wasn’t like an earth shattering thing, like because I wasn’t sure that I could do it. Like I wasn’t sure that was for me. And the four hour workweek is more about starting your own business to reach fire. And so I wasn’t really wanting to start my own business and, like, do what Tim Ferriss did.

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Yelena

But I think as I kept learning more about it and finding out the different pathways that you can actually use to achieve it. Like even working a normal job and just focusing on the kind of the saving versus the business creation aspect, I kind of began to realize that maybe I this is something that I’m interested in.

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Ibi

Does Mr.. Tim talk about fire in the for our work week?

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Yelena

Not directly. I think fire kind of came after like at least the acronym, but he talks about, you know, creating something where you don’t have to work anymore. He focuses more on creating a business that would provide the passive income, that you can only work literally four hours a week just to maintain it, but spend the rest on whatever you want.

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Ibi

How do you feel about passive income?

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Yelena

I like it.

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Why?

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Yelena

Because then you can retire. I mean, I think your passive income can come from different sources, like investments or business. But yeah, once you can create something that generates it, then you don’t have to be attached to your computer or your job. You can focus on your hobbies and your interests.

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Ibi

Interesting. That was a guest on the podcast who was talking about passive income. We had some interesting conversation about it because it wasn’t just passive income from the sense that it’s just money that comes in regularly. But he was basically talking about active, actively managed passive income. So like for example, an online course will go out of date in a few months, years, years.

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Ibi

So it is passive but not infinitely passive. But then there’s other things like real estate ETFs that code those kind of investments that could really be passive for a very extended period of time. And so when you mentioned the four hour workweek, that there was two parts is one of the parts, what I’m referring to as the actively managed passive income.

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Ibi

And the other one is like fully passive, like the business versus investments. Is that is that the theory?

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Yelena

I think Tim Ferriss more focuses on maybe the somewhat actively passive, because it’s like at least at that point, his kind of idea was to start a business. So you are still actively managing it, at least somewhat.

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Yelena

But I think eventually you can move, start moving some of that money into then completely passive investments like stocks and real estate.

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Ibi

Stocks and real estate.

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That’s good. For example. Yeah.

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Ibi

I like stocks and real estate. I don’t have any real.

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Estate.

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Ibi

Never owned a house. I don’t think I would. But okay.

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So.

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Ibi

So you heard about this at 25. You thought, I’m not going to go down the business path. And so did you immediately start down the other path of saving?

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Yelena

I think I was already on the path of saving like that kind of.

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Just good habits or what? I think.

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Yelena

So, yeah. Like.

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Yelena

It just being frugal is just, I think something that my parents taught me. And so I was yeah, pretty good about kind of saving what I could and not kind of spending living paycheck to paycheck. I kind of liked having that cushion in case something happens or I guess eventually for retirement even, you know.

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It’s very financially wise. Yeah.

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Ibi

Right from the beginning.

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Yelena

I think. So. Like, yeah, I grew up in Russia until I was ten. And so yeah, we never had a lot of money. I think there was always like this idea of like being ready for whatever comes. And I mean, a lot of things were possible in Russia in the 90s, like canonical collapses and, you know, political instability.

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Yelena

So there was always this idea of like being prepared.

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Ibi

I totally forgot that you were part Russian.

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Yeah.

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Ibi

Is that why your name is Yelena?

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Yes.

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Ibi

You know, I was thinking. That doesn’t sound like an American name at all.

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Ibi

How long did it take you to actually save for this stuff? How long did it take you to get to a point where you had saved enough that you were able to consider, like, I’m sure I don’t know. Was it like a specific target that you.

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Set yourself? Yeah. Yeah.

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Ibi

Okay. And how long did it take you to reach that target?

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Yelena

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Ibi

And when did you set the target?

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Yelena

I don’t remember specifically when I think when I started researching it. And the target is kind of is based on your spending so centrally 20 times your monthly spending.

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Ibi

20 times.

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You’ll be spending.

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Yelena

And.

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What?

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Ibi

It must be 200 times a month.

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Yeah.

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Yelena

I think 200 times. So it’s like if you’re spending well, it’s essentially the 4% rule. So yeah, if you’re spending 40 K a year then you need about $1 million because you can take out 4% per year and still leave enough in to, to count for inflation at like. And this is kind of assuming a pretty like a growth rate of 6 to 7% in the stock market.

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So which.

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Ibi

Is historically a very comfortable. Right target.

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Right. Yeah.

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Ibi

Okay. So let’s say somebody was spending 40 k year dollars. This is the total spending on rent plus food plus plus everything right. And it’s 200 times that because that’s where we get the 4% from.

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Well so.

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Yelena

I think it’s the monthly. So there it’s 40 per year. Then it’s about three.

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Yelena

K per month.

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Yelena

But then.

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What’s three times 300.

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Ibi

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Yelena

Okay I’ll have to look.

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I think.

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Yelena

Yeah. Not quite. We might.

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Have to.

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Ibi

We might have to do.

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Something to do.

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Ibi

On this okay.

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Yelena

But the 4% rule.

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That’s.

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Yelena

Let’s stick to that.

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Yeah.

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Ibi

Let’s stick to that I agree because I’ve heard of this 4% rule as well okay. So is it is it that you just but what happens when your monthly income, your monthly expenditure goes up with inflation because your monthly expenditure is not going to be like, oh, let’s take annual expenditure.

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Right.

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Yelena

Well that’s why it’s yeah, that’s why you’re kind of leaving some money in. So like your portfolio’s probably growing at 6 or 7%. So you’re only taking out 4%. That leaves a little more in there. So you can kind of increase that. Your overall portfolio goes up and your monthly income can go up by inflation too.

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Ibi

So let’s say inflation is 2 or 3%. And then you leave 2 or 3% in there and then that goes up. All right.

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Yelena

Yeah. And these are like assumptions of course. Yeah. So if the inflation is a lot higher for a long time and these are kind of averages. So if inflation is higher one year but then a little lower next year, it’s fine. As long as it’s still averaging to kind of those 2 or 3%. If you think it’s going to be a lot higher for your whole retirement, then you might want to save a little more.

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Yelena

But also if your portfolio is going up more than 6 or 7 or 8% like it has been in the last few years, like the stock market has generally gone up more than that, then you can also adjust. You might need less. Also, if you’re investing in real estate, you might need less because real estate works in a slightly different way than.

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The.

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Ibi

Average, and.

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You can have higher growth.

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Ibi

So how long does it take to get from.

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Your job?

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Yelena

I think it took about ten years.

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To my particularities.

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Yelena

Okay to reach my.

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Goal.

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Ibi

Ten years. And were you on a abnormal salary or a normal salary?

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Yelena

I was making higher than normal.

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Ibi

You were making higher.

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Than normal.

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Ibi

Okay. How? Why?

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Yelena

Because, like I was in data science and data science one, it’s already a technical field, so you can earn quite a bit because it is considered like a tech specialty, but also because there was a shortage of data. Scientists like data science exploded about ten years ago or 15 years ago. And so a lot of companies wanted a data scientist or data analysts, and they were paying probably more than a typical field.

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Ibi

Did you know that going into it?

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No, no, no.

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Yelena

I went into it just because I liked it. And that was a job that I found. I liked solving problems. I liked kind of some of the coding. I liked building into reports, and I enjoyed it. So I stuck with it. And then it kind of, yeah, exploded. And I was in the right place at the right time.

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Oh my God.

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Yelena

So yeah, so it was helpful. But I think anyone can do fire. I think it’s more a matter of setting the goal and, you know, creating that kind of saving potential. So spending less than you earn.

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Ibi

That’s incredible. So ten years. And the thing is. Right?

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Is that.

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Ibi

It has to be something defined and targeted, like to explicitly have a goal and then save a dedicated amount to that goal. Were you like tracking it as a metric or something somewhere, or you just kind of like dropping some cash every now and then in a specific account?

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Yelena

I mean, I was tracking my total net worth, like my accounts at the time I was using mint. I think there is now like Credit Karma or other apps that just connect to all your accounts and can show you you’re not worth. But I was essentially just saving as much as I could. My goal was not ten years my like I had a monetary goal and then I was just, you know, going to get there at some point.

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Yelena

So I was just, you know, saving as much as I comfortably could.

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Interesting, interesting.

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Ibi

Okay. What happened in the last year before you hit the goal?

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Ibi

Did you get a a feeling of, oh, there’s an opportunity for me to retire or oh, what will I do? What will I be known as? Or oh, I’m so fucking excited. Or like what was the feeling in that one year before.

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00:23:23:02 - 00:23:51:17

Yelena

So I didn’t retire when I actually hit my goal. But I did start traveling I because yeah, I think at that point I was able to kind of focus okay. Like I really want to travel, I’m going to do this even if it maybe like compromises my career eventually. But I was still able to work remotely, which was helpful.

00:23:51:18 - 00:23:57:18

Yelena

It kind of provided that cushion.

00:23:57:20 - 00:23:58:19

I think.

00:23:59:00 - 00:24:09:10

Yelena

Emotionally, like, I don’t know, I think I kind of felt doubt as well. Like I wasn’t sure if it was going to work.

00:24:09:12 - 00:24:10:13

Ibi

If it was enough.

00:24:10:14 - 00:24:25:20

Yelena

Yeah. Like if it was enough, it if I also wasn’t sure if my spending would change when I retired because I thought, oh, like, if I have all this time, maybe I’ll want to spend a lot more.

00:24:25:22 - 00:24:57:03

Yelena

To entertain myself in the hours that I’m not working. But I actually found the opposite. Like I was able to spend less and I’m able to spend less now that I’m retired. Just focusing on slower things like slower travel path, like doing things that kind of take more time, like volunteering or.

00:24:57:05 - 00:25:04:11

Yelena

Yeah, like doing the dive master training. That’s something that I would not have been able to do when I was working.

00:25:04:17 - 00:25:07:22

Ibi

Are you under spending against the target that you set yourself to spend a.

00:25:07:22 - 00:25:09:00

Year.

00:25:09:01 - 00:25:09:09

Ibi

Or are you.

00:25:09:10 - 00:25:10:20

Hitting it?

00:25:10:22 - 00:25:14:04

Yelena

I think I’m under spending slightly.

00:25:14:06 - 00:25:17:02

Ibi

How does that feel?

00:25:17:04 - 00:25:19:11

Good. I think more.

00:25:19:13 - 00:25:34:16

Yelena

It provides. Like more security. The portfolio can can grow. And then if there is a year with more expenses, you’re prepared for it again.

00:25:34:17 - 00:25:35:19

00:25:35:21 - 00:25:36:16

Ibi

Interesting.

00:25:36:17 - 00:25:42:02

Yeah.

00:25:42:04 - 00:25:45:13

Ibi

Do you feel special.

00:25:45:15 - 00:25:46:19

Ibi

Do you feel like a genius.

00:25:46:20 - 00:25:50:06

No.

00:25:50:08 - 00:26:11:17

Yelena

I, I feel like I am lucky to have kind of figured out that this is possible, that this is something that people do and kind of read about how people do it. But I didn’t invent this. Like I just learned from others.

00:26:11:19 - 00:26:28:09

Yelena

And I like I think anyone can kind of follow a similar path just by educating yourself on kind of how how to save, how to invest.

00:26:28:11 - 00:26:36:16

Yelena

How to earn more. Like all of these things help you kind of get to the end goal.

00:26:36:18 - 00:26:52:18

Ibi

There’s a lot of people that talk about retirement and they’re like, oh, I don’t know what I would do in my retirement. I don’t know what I would do if they talk about retiring at 65 or something and then having a whole 30 years of life. I know what to do. How does that make you feel to be retired?

00:26:52:20 - 00:27:18:07

Yelena

I think it’s partially true. I think you have to have, you know, goals and interests that you are already pursuing. Because when I first retired, like maybe a month or two in there is kind of like an identity shift. Like I was like, oh, I’m no longer a data scientist. I’m not even a digital nomad because I’m not, like.

00:27:18:09 - 00:27:19:05

Making money.

00:27:19:05 - 00:27:25:20

Yelena

More like, who am I? What am I like? What am I going to do with my life?

00:27:25:22 - 00:27:27:06

Ibi

I need two months to work.

00:27:27:06 - 00:27:28:15

It out.

00:27:28:17 - 00:28:09:10

Yelena

Well, no, it took two months to kind of feel like I don’t know who I am anymore. And that was a little scary. Like, I think there was both, yes, excitement, but also kind of fear and confusion. And I think it is important to kind of have those hobbies, interests, maybe even secondary, I don’t know, jobs or tasks that you are working on to shift, to be able to shift kind of your energy from work into those paths.

00:28:09:12 - 00:28:14:19

Yelena

And from there, yeah, you can kind of build on it or discover new things.

00:28:14:22 - 00:28:16:02

Ibi

So what are you doing with the.

00:28:16:02 - 00:28:17:07

Time travel?

00:28:17:07 - 00:28:18:18

Yelena

I would say is the main thing.

00:28:18:19 - 00:28:19:16

Very good.

00:28:19:20 - 00:28:57:18

Yelena

That was, you know, always a passion. And so being able to do that without worrying about deadlines and meetings is really rewarding. But I’m also doing yoga and meditation, like teaching meditation is a big passion of mine. So offering that to currently friends but eventually growing it to kind of include potentially other travelers or digital nomads would be a really rewarding kind of path.

00:28:57:19 - 00:29:01:04

Ibi

Is it something that you actively offer to digital nomads?

00:29:01:06 - 00:29:26:10

Yelena

I currently have one weekly class that is free to attend and it’s yeah, digital nomads or really anyone can join. I think it’s important for digital nomads because it just kind of helps ground, helps kind of relieve some of that energy that I feel like is very.

00:29:26:12 - 00:29:45:20

Yelena

I don’t know, unbound because we’re traveling so much because we’re kind of constantly moving around. I think, like meditation would really help me kind of, okay, like I’ve arrived here to kind of feel at home anywhere.

00:29:45:22 - 00:29:56:08

Ibi

Why is it the nomad community that you’re connected to? Is it is it just how I’m seeing you now, like when you’re normally traveling, are you connected to the digital nomad community?

00:29:56:10 - 00:30:14:15

Yelena

Sometimes I mean, here, yes, but I also travel a lot by myself and I’ll just solo travel, explore on my own. So yeah, it varies. I like to mix it up.

00:30:14:17 - 00:30:16:14

And now.

00:30:16:16 - 00:30:28:00

Ibi

You’ve got, I got a theory. That theory is that you only start living when you’re 20, and you kind of stop living when you’re 80.

00:30:28:01 - 00:30:28:09

Okay.

00:30:28:10 - 00:30:54:09

Ibi

The theory is, the first 20 years, in the last 20 years of your life are kind of like write offs on both of their ends. For me, at least the first 20 years of my life, I was kind of like just going with the flow, doing what people told me. I wasn’t really making my own decisions. And I also think that in the last 20 years of my life, I’m probably, if I’m still around, I guess, you know, going to be just going with the flow and not really making my own decisions or anything because I’ll be old and gray.

00:30:54:10 - 00:30:56:00

Yelena

This is like 80 to 100.

00:30:56:01 - 00:30:56:18

Yeah. Okay.

00:30:56:19 - 00:31:19:00

Ibi

80 to 100. Yeah. So I reckon between 20 and 80 is those 60 years that you’re really living right now. You’ll probably want a third or so of the way through that. And you’ve got two thirds or so of it left. Like how does that feel? What are you going to do with that? You’ve got some of the most incredible years of your life ahead of you, right?

00:31:19:00 - 00:31:26:15

Ibi

And you’re financially free and you’ve got time to do so to do things. What are you going to do with it? How excited are you?

00:31:26:17 - 00:31:53:15

Yelena

Yeah, it’s very exciting. I think partially I ask myself that as well. What am I going to do when I grow up? And it’s not always clear, but I think following these two passions is kind of the path, like yoga and meditation and traveling. Those are the things that I enjoy most, and that’s what I want to continue doing.

00:31:53:16 - 00:32:04:02

Yelena

And, you know, and spending time with friends and family and new friends and new family. Digital family.

00:32:04:04 - 00:32:17:09

Ibi

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, actually at time, but I really appreciate that. And I never knew what fire was until I spoke to you. You could even say that you sparked a fire inside me.